MTR-039: Michael LaRocque

MTR-039: Michael LaRocque

Which is more masculine? Working 17 hours a day, driving a jacked-up truck, and drinking all weekend long, or dealing with your emotional insecurities, figuring out your identity, and learning to be a better listener with your wife? On today's podcast, I'm talking with Michael LaRoque, who has 20 years of experience in construction where he earned a nationwide leadership award. He has walked through addiction, mental health, and relationship struggles nearly calling it quits with his wife Laura after 4 years. Today he's encouraging men to take charge of their lives physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually so they can be the man their partner and family need.

Transcript:

00;00;01;23 - 00;00;05;24
David
Boop, boop, boop.

00;00;10;11 - 00;00;43;22
David
All right, men. Which is more masculine. Working 17 hours a day, driving a jacked up truck and drinking all weekend long. Or dealing with your emotional insecurities, figuring out your identity and learning to be a better listener with your wife. Well, on today's podcast, I'm talking with Michael Lerach, who has 20 years of experience in construction, where he earned a nationwide leadership award He's walked through addiction, mental health and relationship struggles, nearly calling it quits with his wife, Laura, after four years.

00;00;44;23 - 00;00;53;11
David
Today, he's encouraging men to take charge of their lives physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually so they can be the man their partner and family need.

00;00;56;21 - 00;01;22;17
David
You're listening to The Man They Remember podcast, where we're encouraging men to be the kind of man people will remember when we're gone. We're tearing down the macho man stereotype one episode at a time. Go to men. They remember dot com for more information Well, welcome back, men to another episode of the podcast. Got a treat for us today, so we're going to jump right into our conversation with with Michael Lerach.

00;01;22;18 - 00;01;23;20
David
Michael, how are you doing today?

00;01;24;04 - 00;01;25;11
Michael
I'm great. Thanks, man.

00;01;26;07 - 00;01;48;05
David
Well, Michael has a Facebook page. He's got a I don't know what you would call it, I guess kind of a a podcast business that you're doing with your wife, with your wife called the revived couple. And but also, he's got some history with men's leadership and and he's got a story there. So we're going to jump right into one of those things.

00;01;48;05 - 00;02;13;14
David
But one of the things that you shared before we got on was that you have a an affinity for woodworking. And that kind of started your journey into men's leadership and in your story with that, with becoming a guy that's more comfortable being a leader and kind of rising up out of that. So so maybe you can tell us how you how that a little bit of that journey and your story as we get started.

00;02;14;11 - 00;02;28;25
Michael
Oh, you nailed it, Dave. I was listening to one of your podcasts and you guys were talking about woodworking and carpentry is like, oh, man, these guys really sparked my interest because I can fall down the rabbit hole of looking on YouTube videos and watching woodworking. And then my wife walks by and she's like, What are you doing?

00;02;28;26 - 00;02;43;16
Michael
She's like, this is like you do this for work or you do that. Did it for work, and now you're watching this on TV. And I was like, No, you don't understand, because I most men, I guess, listen to. It's like, you can fall into that trance of watching people as silly as it sounds, you know, planing wood.

00;02;43;16 - 00;02;47;15
Michael
And do you think you're like, Holy God, this is that's really mesmerizing.

00;02;47;16 - 00;03;12;10
David
You know, there's something something cathartic about it when you watch it. I don't think it's as bad, though, as watching, like, play guys play through video games and stuff like that. And I know those are pretty big videos on YouTube, guys. I spend hours and hours watching a play through all the way through a game. So. So that's maybe because at least when you're when you're watching a woodworking video you might learn something that you can go put into practice next time you're working on something.

00;03;12;29 - 00;03;26;12
Michael
Oh, you nailed it. But I guess you could have that. Are you with my son? Who'd be like, No, I've got to get past this part in a video game right now. I've got to watch it right. But no, you nailed it. And it's. Yeah, so getting into woodworking, you just that's been my career. I've been I'm a I'm a read.

00;03;26;21 - 00;03;42;23
Michael
They call it read SEAL in Canada, but I'm journeyman carpenter and then just went on and on from there for for commercial construction. We can get into that a bit more. But I didn't really I was a carpenter, but in commercial construction, you're a carpenter, but you don't really carpenter a whole lot. You just get things done right.

00;03;42;23 - 00;03;58;05
Michael
Whatever that looks like. Right. So I never really got to do any kind of any kind of cabinet work or any kind of fine woodworking or anything like that. So as soon as I was able to get a graduate, like, hey, I really want to set up a woodworking spot and just kind of fall in love with that a little bit.

00;03;58;05 - 00;04;13;16
Michael
And once I got going and I really lose my I think you can really lose yourself in hours and you have no idea what you're doing. Like, no idea of time. You just get going and you're and you're in it and for myself, that was a really good call it act of meditation almost, and just being able to relax and enjoy it.

00;04;14;01 - 00;04;37;26
David
Yeah, that's one. One of the things I love about it is it's involved enough that you can, you can shut off your mind. You don't you almost you have to shut off your mind from being distracted and thinking about other things because you have to focus on what you're doing. You know, you're if you're using power tools and table songs and radio alarm saws and all those things, you, you don't want to get distracted for, for a second while you're using that.

00;04;37;26 - 00;05;01;26
David
And, but it's, it's a good, it's a good practice. You know, it's good to have something like that to set your mind off from the things it's normally stressing and thinking about and to something that's a lot more, um, just a very different wood work. It's a very different thing for me. Most of my most of my work is thinking work and, and, and writing and all of that stuff.

00;05;01;26 - 00;05;17;07
David
So to do something with my hands and, and have my mind on something entirely different from what I'm doing all week, it's, it's restful, it's enjoyable. So I get what you're saying when you're with the meditation idea, it's almost like meditating, but there is some aspect of it that it is very like that.

00;05;18;01 - 00;05;31;28
Michael
Oh, absolutely. And there's so much pride as well. Once you finish a project and you, you can show it to someone or gifted your, you know, give it to your wife or your friend or whoever wherever you do gift it to. And myself, I got very fortunate in getting to spend time with my son in that wood shop as well.

00;05;32;03 - 00;05;51;24
Michael
I mean, he would mess around and do different things, but getting the spend even just to be around that is just so nice, right? Because I always had that romantic idea of, you know, thinking back to my childhood and I grew up on a small farm. So I was always around my dad when he was working and doing things, but never really, I don't know, never really thinking, never getting to enjoy it.

00;05;52;17 - 00;06;07;10
Michael
I had to put that like never really you always see it on TV. I always see it on TV. And I was like, Oh, I want all these magic moments with my dad and all his blood stuff, right? But he's working. He's getting stuff done and never really thought about. So I always know I lived out a little bit to my son.

00;06;07;10 - 00;06;13;08
Michael
I try to stop and make sure that he knows what's going on and and what I'm doing. So it's, it's pretty special.

00;06;13;16 - 00;06;29;06
David
Yeah. So. So tell us then your journey of going because you, you got started in that field and but then you started by necessity or even maybe against your will a little bit climbing, climbing the ladder, so to speak, in that industry. How did that happen? What was that like?

00;06;29;18 - 00;06;47;01
Michael
Yeah, for sure it was. I joke, but I'm half serious is like it's a summer job. That didn't end. And, you know, I was in high school. I wasn't the greatest student at all. I played I'm in Canada, so I played hockey and I did a lot of rodeo. So I mean, between those two things, school really wasn't on the priority list too much.

00;06;47;12 - 00;06;48;15
David
So rodeo, huh?

00;06;48;27 - 00;06;52;21
Michael
Yeah. I used to race truck way like pony chuckwagon. So race horses.

00;06;53;01 - 00;06;53;16
David
Okay.

00;06;53;25 - 00;07;15;27
Michael
Yeah. So pony propaganda chariots. Oh, well, I hope again, growing up in a small farm, my dad was quite into it when he was younger. He actually used to do a lot of sleigh rides in town with horses. So I was always around horses in harnesses and just wagons and things. And then one of my friends in high school, high school in junior high, he his, his father was really into it.

00;07;15;27 - 00;07;27;12
Michael
And they got and then I was hanging around them and then they're like, Well, Mike, you want to try this? Like, Well, yeah, I do. And then go talk to my dad about it. He was like, all four he's like, Oh, God, this is awesome. So it's a great, great way to spend some time with my dad and my friends.

00;07;27;12 - 00;07;45;27
Michael
And you kind of turn into a it's a bit of a traveling circus, right? Every weekend you're in a different town and you travel around and take the tight knit community and just so much fun and so many good people that you meet. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. And then same with hockey, right? Like it was always some sort of some tournaments or games or anything like that.

00;07;45;27 - 00;08;09;04
Michael
So I mean, again, it's not right, but school kind of got pushed to the backburner a little bit. And so when I graduated high school, there wasn't a ton of doors open for me, really. Like I didn't have that university wasn't really on the on the docket. I mean, I could have went and did some upgrading, but ended up surprisingly enough going into carpentry because most people I know are either welders or, you know, loggers or truck drivers, that kind of thing.

00;08;09;22 - 00;08;26;24
Michael
So got into carpentry and just like I say, I think it was a small growing up in a small farm getting things done. Like, I mean, there wasn't a lot of money, so you just had to do things. Had everything started to get fixed so I was able to problem solve quite, quite well. So I made it through my, my apprenticeship quite easily.

00;08;27;06 - 00;08;42;05
Michael
And then as soon as I wasn't even a journeyman yet and there like came like, I just need you to run this project, like, okay. Well, sure. I mean, here I am, right? So I just started running jobs and it was like, I didn't, I didn't have a plan. My career I didn't have a career plan at all.

00;08;42;05 - 00;08;56;00
Michael
I had no plan as a man. I was just like, okay, you pay bills and live life, and this is what we're doing. And and as I moved up the ladder, I kept, you know, oh, here's $2, here's a $2 raise. And so I was like, okay, this is just going to be life now. But I had no plan at all.

00;08;56;14 - 00;09;15;19
Michael
And, yeah, kept doing it. And like I say, I learned a lot of lessons along the way, but at the same time, I didn't even realize what I was doing. Like, I would just I don't know what you call it, like, almost like an idiot savant. I was just like it worked out really well, but I had no idea what I was doing, and I didn't really think about it until now.

00;09;15;19 - 00;09;34;12
Michael
I can look back on some, some of the experiences I had, like, oh, wow. I really did handle that quite well. And I was able to navigate my way through things. And like you say, it kept, kept going up the chain. And then I kind of hit the glass ceiling at at three years old, but I was running the largest projects for our company.

00;09;34;12 - 00;09;55;09
Michael
So we were doing, you know, ten, $12 million jobs and hitting that glass ceiling. And I wasn't getting the satisfaction anymore. And there was really no I mean, every day there's problems and things arise and stuff like that, but there wasn't really I didn't jump out of bed or happy about work or anything like that. So hitting this glass ceiling, my relationship was suffering as well.

00;09;55;09 - 00;10;16;04
Michael
I was newly married. I spent way too much time drinking my my problems and my my anxieties away. So that wasn't helping anything. And, and yeah, it just kind of hit that spot and then it rolled off in a relationship. And then it was like, what do we do? Do we do we get a divorce? Do I? I'm not happy at anything.

00;10;16;04 - 00;10;19;15
Michael
My wife wasn't happy it was it was a really tricky spot.

00;10;20;04 - 00;10;32;29
David
Now that let's dove into that just a little bit. So you you're working a lot. Your work, you may be overworking, spending too much time working. Is that what you were saying? And then and then not spending enough time in the in the relationship.

00;10;33;18 - 00;10;52;09
Michael
It was it was one of those things where I was working all day. So you'd work from seven to whatever, five, five 30. And then I was doing a lot of I call them side jobs, I guess, in carpentry. Right. So as you know, building fences, pouring concrete, doing all these things. So from five 30 till I call it nine during the summer, spring, summer, fall.

00;10;52;28 - 00;11;07;14
Michael
And it was, there was really no time for my wife. And then on top of that, from that time, you know, when the weekend hit, I would be drinking to, you know, relax and all of my problems and get rid of my anxiety. So it was like right there was even if you look at it on paper, it's like, really?

00;11;07;14 - 00;11;23;17
Michael
Where did my wife fit into that situation? Right. And then when we did, when we when I was present or available, I really wasn't I really wasn't present. Right. I really wasn't listening. I really wasn't taking her into account at all. And then when the when it did arise, I was like most men, I was like, no, I'm doing this for us, honey.

00;11;23;17 - 00;11;38;16
Michael
Like, you know, we need money to pay bills. We need I'm doing this for us so we we can go on that one vacation a year where, you know, generally I'm drinking the whole time to relax. Right. And just like it was just a vicious cycle. So once I was able to see it through her lens, I was like, oh, boy.

00;11;38;17 - 00;11;38;29
Michael
Okay.

00;11;39;28 - 00;11;59;13
David
Now what was what was driving you there? What was, what was the thing? Because you're working 10 hours a day all summer long just for your job. And then and then you're working other extra projects on the, on the evenings and working in, you know, three or four or five extra hours every evening and then maybe some weekends or where you're exhausted on the weekends.

00;11;59;13 - 00;12;11;14
David
So you don't feel like you have, you know, emotional capital to to give to your wife. But what was what was it that was really driving you to, to just keep going after more and more work all that time during those long days of the summer?

00;12;12;06 - 00;12;34;16
Michael
Oh, man. When you I was always concerned about money, which was which is the silliest thing now looking back on it, because you cannot I can never get that time back. Right and right. The money I was making was nominal like I'm not driving a Ferrari or doing anything crazy. Right. So it was it was pretty silly in hindsight, but that was kind of my driving factor was like, oh, let's go build this fence.

00;12;34;16 - 00;12;49;06
Michael
We'll get 1200 dollars that we'll share between three of us, which is, you know, a few hundred bucks, which is great. You got some cash in your pocket. But at the same time, it's like that time would have been, well, a lot better spent, you know, with my wife cultivating that relationship and building what we have now.

00;12;49;16 - 00;13;04;22
David
Right? So you so you're, you're married for a few years and then you kind of hit you go to get to a point, to get to a moment, the pinnacle moment in your relationship and, and what happens there. What's, what's that part of the story yeah.

00;13;04;22 - 00;13;24;24
Michael
That was a real crux because my wife I was just living this life, right. And getting by paying bills. I thought in my mind and my modeling from my my parents like that was what men do. And that's what, you know, we pay bills as we get older. Hopefully we retire and that's kind of life. Right. But my wife was talking to other people.

00;13;24;24 - 00;13;40;28
Michael
She was actually in some counseling. She was trying to get me to go counseling. And like most men are like, there's no way I'm going to counseling. So that didn't work. But she was really making some big changes in her life. And I seen it in her. Right. And she was really she was finally hitting that point where she wasn't dependent on me at all.

00;13;40;28 - 00;14;01;09
Michael
She was starting to like you know, be her own person, do her own thing. And I was seeing these changes and we had talks about it and I was still open. I, I accepted my own faults for sure. And she finally hit the point where we all Calcasieu we're going to have to get a divorce here. And, and I was okay with that and I was like, okay, well, I shouldn't say I was okay with it.

00;14;01;09 - 00;14;16;05
Michael
I was I was quite, you know, not happy at that. But at the same time, it's like, okay, I got to let you flourish. You're doing some big things, and I need you to be. I still love you, right? So I was I wanted her to be happy and and live her life. And I realized that I was just bringing her down with what I was offering.

00;14;16;23 - 00;14;31;21
Michael
And in that, so we I agreed to that, and we kind of gave it it three months to just get our affairs in order, get things that it really didn't have kids yet. So it was, you know, make sure we're both okay and take care of and had vehicles and and we can kind of go our separate way.

00;14;31;21 - 00;14;52;23
Michael
But in doing so, I really fell back in love because I was like, Laura was doing her own thing just completely. I was doing my own thing. And I was kind of getting I was starting to find some happiness where I remember one story of we were driving and I was like, oh, I seen this motorcycle. You know, Harley Davidson is like, man, I really want one of those but it was always, you know, money or law.

00;14;52;24 - 00;15;08;28
Michael
Like, my wife probably wouldn't want me to get one. And it was always like a conversation. She was like, Why don't you just get one? I shouldn't say it like that. She'd probably like, just go and I was like, Okay, well, I mean, I didn't have a license, have nothing yet. But the next day, like me, I get very like, like most men, I jump in both feet, right?

00;15;08;28 - 00;15;26;14
Michael
So I was like, okay, right away. Go to the store, buy this motorbike, ended up getting my license and doing everything proper, but get this motorbike. And it was no, I was so happy. No, like I wasn't. So having that motorbike and being on the road and doing different things for me anyway, that took away my whole drinking.

00;15;27;00 - 00;15;43;21
Michael
I shouldn't say whole drinking, but it took away a lot of that a lot of that, that need for that as an outlet. I had another outlet, something to work on, something to ride and, you know, ride with some people and do different things and so I was really starting to find myself and be happy and starting to get content in myself.

00;15;43;21 - 00;15;58;03
Michael
And then once Laura started realizing this and we just kind of fell back in love, it was it was pretty crazy. So she was doing her own thing. She was happy. I was doing my own thing and I was happy, but I happy myself and comfort myself. So we decided like, okay, well, let's, let's give it some time.

00;15;58;03 - 00;16;13;13
Michael
Let's let's not get a divorce. I think it was mainly me. I was like, No, no, we're not getting divorced. Like, I want to, I want to try this. I want to stick this out. I'll do whatever it takes. So I ended. I even ended up going to AA for a while, just to kind of sort through those demons as well and, and really dig into it.

00;16;14;00 - 00;16;30;28
Michael
So we decided to stay together. The Laura said, Okay, we got to do something dramatic. You're not happy. I want to do something different as well. We got to get out of these situations that we're in. Nothing bad, but we were just in that stagnant, just same. It was like Groundhog Day almost. Right? It was just day after day.

00;16;31;16 - 00;16;52;29
Michael
So we sold everything. Whatever we had left, we put in a can. We moved to England for two years. London, England, let's see can. Oh, shipping container. Like a steel. Steel. Yeah, steel shipping container or something. We put whatever we could store in there. Sold everything else we got. What do we say? We got two, one way tickets and one week's a comedy.

00;16;53;00 - 00;17;13;15
Michael
We got a one week Airbnb. We had no idea what we were doing. We had two year visas and ended up making it work. It was crazy. My wife, she got a job at Lululemon. I guess it's like a athletic wear so she got a job and she was working in Chelsea. So right on the high street with all the highfalutin, all the real fancy people.

00;17;13;15 - 00;17;34;13
Michael
And I ended up getting a job at a a gym, like a workout gym okay. Selling memberships is a super high end gym, and it really wouldn't work where I'm at right now. But in central London, it works really well. There's, you know, a deejay and there's these crazy classes and there's fighting and professional bodybuilding. They get just the craziest scene, but ended up making it work.

00;17;34;13 - 00;17;51;04
Michael
And it worked really well because we didn't live like travelers, because I ended up with this job that was a commission based job. And me being Canadian in London, I have the accent apparently. So it worked out really well, and people like it just got on really well with a lot of people. And so anyway, we so we were in London.

00;17;51;26 - 00;18;08;22
Michael
I changed like 180 as a person, just, you know, walking around, riding bikes, doing all this crazy stuff and just really enjoying life again. So I again found my vigor and found found myself a bit and our relationship just flourished. There it was. It was really amazing.

00;18;09;16 - 00;18;40;10
David
Yeah. So it sounded like sounded like, you know, when you when you kind of pulled away from from working all the time and then, you know, maybe it would it be fair to say you were using work how would I say this? Using work to to keep you keep your mind from thinking about things, you know, just to keep it, you know, as long as you're occupied with with working 17, 18 hours a day, you didn't have to you didn't have to think about life.

00;18;40;10 - 00;18;59;07
David
You didn't have to think about your marriage. You didn't have to you have to really worry about it. You could just kind of use it to keep your mind toned down a little bit. And or was that just accidental that it was that it was kind of keeping you from from really evaluating what was going on in your marriage and, and in your home life?

00;18;59;28 - 00;19;16;27
Michael
Oh, I think you nailed it, Dave, where I wasn't really aware of it at the time. But again, looking back on it is that was a perfect excuse is the perfect crutch to not have to look at myself for so many things. I was able to hide in that work and use money as the excuse, as the golden kind of excuse.

00;19;16;27 - 00;19;34;12
Michael
And I wasn't. And it was almost acceptable. Right. If I told that if I told my situation that anybody else, you know, needed backup for my stories, everyone would agree like, no, he's working hard. He tries to, you know, support his family, support his wife. So I was using that as the biggest the biggest crutch there was yeah.

00;19;34;28 - 00;20;08;10
David
I think that's easy for us to do as men. You know, we it's we don't really like to be alone with our thoughts, you know, all that often. We don't we don't like to sit down and, and think, oh, why why am I why am I working 78 hour 70, 80 hours a week? Why why am I and then why am I when I get done with work going in and spending most of the time in the free money that I earned doing the extra jobs on on alcohol and not with my wife, you know, we don't we don't want to stop and, and ruminate on any of those things.

00;20;08;10 - 00;20;26;19
David
It's easier to just kind of keep plowing through and say and use that excuse well, I got to I got to bring home the bacon. Right. I got a I got to make the money. You got to provide for my family. They got to keep the ship afloat. And we do those things and and we use those. I think just as an excuse to to not really wrestle with, you know, what we're thinking about.

00;20;26;19 - 00;20;48;29
David
And maybe down underneath, it's not even just it's not even just a relationship issue. That we're that we're afraid to deal with, you know, but but we're afraid to know who we really are. You know, we're afraid to kind of dig deep into our own mind, into our own, you know, psyche and figure out, you know, maybe maybe there's something about who I am and my identity that I need to work on.

00;20;49;06 - 00;20;53;10
David
And so as long as we can keep ourselves busy, we don't have to actually go there and think about that.

00;20;54;07 - 00;21;13;08
Michael
Oh, man, you wrap that up perfectly. I see it all the time, though, with coaching other men and with men's groups. Those are kind of the the main points that always pop up, right? The more time we can spend not looking at ourselves. Right. You know, and busy work and on the outside, making it look like, you know, I'm working so hard doing this all for my family.

00;21;13;08 - 00;21;19;09
Michael
But inside, you're just yeah, you're just ignoring every you're doing everything you can to not look in the mirror on that.

00;21;19;15 - 00;21;48;29
David
Right. So so you're in London you're you're doing things differently. You're developing. And that's one of the things that that is good about a big change like that is, you know, you change environment entirely. It's you know, it's easier to to sever ties with some of those old habits and routines and patterns when you get out of the same you know, the same traffic flow so to speak, that you're in on a day in, day out basis and you go into an entirely different country, different way of life, different job, different career.

00;21;48;29 - 00;22;09;26
David
And you can actually start looking a little bit more intentionally say, oh, I was just kind of stuck in this, you know, this skipping record, going back and forth and then looping and not getting out of that loop. But now you get into a different world and you and you're doing something different. What are what are some lessons that you started to learn when you're when you're over there in London and you're you're evaluating things?

00;22;09;26 - 00;22;16;08
David
Looking back at where you were and where you are at that moment, what are some of the key, key lessons you learned during that time?

00;22;16;25 - 00;22;41;19
Michael
Yeah, in London was was great, right? Because I was able to like you said, kind of one 80 career wise was completely different. And just the biggest thing for me was to enjoy myself. I was like, okay, this this is who I am. Like, I mean, I always took that carpenter, that that builder, that leader, that whole that whole role was my that's who like that was my persona, I guess.

00;22;41;19 - 00;23;03;24
Michael
Or that's who I was, right? I mean, again, I didn't really want it, but that's who I was to everybody else. So I was like, okay, this is what I have to be. And this is what I am. When I was able to go, you know, halfway around the world and just really, truly be who I was, I just having so much fun and so many open conversations and I learned to be a lot more a lot more vulnerable, a lot more open with people.

00;23;03;24 - 00;23;22;22
Michael
But at the same, like not I talk about it as well, quite a bit like not not vulnerable in the sense of, you know, vomiting or my emotions on everybody, but, you know, picking your spots and knowing when to when knowing when to do it. But but having some really, really deep honest conversations with a lot of people, a lot of men, a lot of women even.

00;23;22;22 - 00;23;41;29
Michael
And just, you know, it was really amazing experience of really getting to open up and not having to put on that tough guy persona or that, you know, just that carpenter, that builder persona, right? I was able to just be who I was. And now looking back on, I was like, well, that even made you stronger, right? And and I was able to bring that back to back to my life when I came home.

00;23;42;13 - 00;23;44;29
Michael
In a sense, there's a few hiccups along the way able to call. Right?

00;23;45;07 - 00;23;48;05
David
Right. So you're in London for three years. Is that right?

00;23;48;22 - 00;23;50;22
Michael
Two years. We had two year working visas. Yeah.

00;23;50;22 - 00;23;56;13
David
Okay. So you're in London for two years. You've been married three years before that or so through a few years.

00;23;56;13 - 00;24;00;23
Michael
Yeah. 20, ten we got married and so we were married four years before we moved. Yeah.

00;24;01;01 - 00;24;01;12
David
Okay.

00;24;01;26 - 00;24;02;05
Michael
Yeah.

00;24;02;20 - 00;24;28;17
David
So you go there, you have, you have a rough, you know, first four years, maybe not even, maybe not maybe rough isn't the right word. Just kind of a ambivalent first for years and then things are bound to fall apart. You, you take some time off, you get things going, you're working together, you go over to London to spend a couple of years there, re-orient your life around an entirely different set of values, and you come back then to Canada, right?

00;24;28;17 - 00;24;29;24
David
Is that where you went after London?

00;24;30;11 - 00;24;48;10
Michael
Yeah. So that's where that's where there's one there's a couple hiccups along the way, but trying to keep the big city life going right, our our visas ran out. I love London. I would I would still be there, to be honest, if we didn't have to come home and, you know, visas ran out. And it's really not like central London was where I love being.

00;24;48;10 - 00;25;07;08
Michael
But at the same time, it's not very conducive to to raising small children. Right. But yeah, so my wife, when we left, she was three months pregnant when we left London, which is which is awesome. But to me, when we when we came back, I was like, I just really want to keep this keep this life going, keep this lifestyle.

00;25;07;08 - 00;25;34;07
Michael
So I drug my pregnant wife out to Vancouver. We're in central Alberta, so I drug her out to Vancouver, British Columbia. And we didn't know it's all out there. And I wasn't sure what I was going to do is k well, Laura's coach and she just started coaching business like I can do this with you as well. So rolled out for a few months and then ran out of money in Vancouver kind of thing.

00;25;34;07 - 00;25;52;12
Michael
Right. And is like Oh God, I got to get a job. And I was so dead stuck up not going back to carpentry or construction. And I was like, got to stay away from construction. So I ended up selling cars and and I've it's very interesting. I'm so glad I did it. I did it for a year. We'll call it.

00;25;52;12 - 00;26;13;27
Michael
I learned so many lessons and so much about people and struggles, and that was strictly commission based rates. So it was a very interesting, very interesting time. And then in that Vancouver move, obviously my son was born and and different things. And so I really put a lot of hardships on us in the sense of if I would, it came back to construction back in central Alberta.

00;26;13;27 - 00;26;30;03
Michael
Once after London move, we would have been fine. We had good savings. Everything would have been hunky dory. But right. Moved it out to Vancouver trying to keep that going. And I never chalk anything up as a failure, but that one was pretty close. I almost got stuck out there without without, you know, borrowing money from people or whatever.

00;26;30;03 - 00;26;50;27
Michael
But I almost, almost ran out of money. But I ended up with enough money was able to get a U-Haul and get us back to back to central Alberta. So we got us back here. And then that's I hit a bit of a depression because of that failure and then I shouldn't say a bit of a depression. I got depressed because then I went back to my old job, exact same spot.

00;26;51;12 - 00;27;11;26
Michael
So I I literally pushed pause on my life for three years and went right back into the exact same psyche. Like I fit perfectly in there. And it was like, honestly, like nothing changed out. A few more wrinkles on my face because I was older and that's about it. I literally didn't change anything. And when I did that, I was I hit a depression for, for a while and that one.

00;27;13;03 - 00;27;44;19
David
Yeah, it's amazing how how you can get away from a situation and you can change everything. You can be in an, an entirely different mental state and then but then if you go, you know, you find yourself back there eventually it's it's so easy. You know, it's how the brain works. You know, we talk about, you know, neural pathways and how hard it can be to create a neural pathway, a new neural pathway and really get get something, you know, on to a place in your life where where it's more habitual, where it becomes more second nature.

00;27;44;29 - 00;28;06;17
David
You know, it takes it takes, you know, 60 to 90 days to do to really get a neural pathway firmly established. And so when you're trying to, you know, get away from something, start something new and change your life entirely, it can be it can be hard to get over that hurdle. And yet you can put in all this work, you can spend years and you can actually get there and you come back to a situation.

00;28;06;17 - 00;28;25;19
David
All those old neural pathways are still there. And so so it's literally what you said you can get right, but you just learn that you plug yourself right back into into the circuit and everything is just just flowing like it was and you don't even realize it. You know, within a day or two, you know, you just you're back to the old habits, old patterns and all that.

00;28;25;26 - 00;28;35;16
David
All that old circuitry that's around you use triggering you into and to back to doing all the other things that you find yourself wanting to go back to drinking and that kind of stuff, too, or.

00;28;36;07 - 00;28;56;25
Michael
Oh, well, you nailed it. So I did like all of that. Right. And you're just like, Oh, what am I doing? So then like I say, I was really down on myself, but at the same time, I wasn't using drinking as a crutch anymore, which was great. So I had that. I had that as a win but that forced me to just like we were talking about before, that forced me to really look at a lot of things and a lot of issues and a lot of my anxieties.

00;28;56;25 - 00;29;16;20
Michael
And I didn't have that. I didn't have that crutch to lean on anymore, to numb all that. Right? So I was really I was facing that head on. So I went through quite a time of, of just. Yeah, I'm extremely unhappy or making myself unhappy. Looking back on that time, even I was like, there was nothing to really be unhappy about.

00;29;16;20 - 00;29;34;18
Michael
I had a newborn, newborn son my wife. We were all healthy and, you know, things like that. But I put myself in such a depression of, you know, I let myself down. I let us down. We were made for big things, and I'm right back to where we're at. So, yeah, it was it was I was really beating myself up.

00;29;34;18 - 00;29;50;20
Michael
But again, looking back on it, I'm like, no, you know, where did what was needed for the family? I got us back on our feet money wise and and doing extremely well. And just it was it was what was needed at the time. But it took me a long time to realize that and to realize that I was doing the right thing for us.

00;29;50;21 - 00;29;58;24
Michael
Right. I would, I would just so concentrate on myself and beating myself up as a failure that I didn't realized, you know, we kept the family moving and kept their kept us going.

00;29;59;02 - 00;30;20;17
David
Right. So so were you down on yourself because because you felt like a failure and providing for your family or were you down on yourself because you had to go back to to the place you kind of escaped from, you know, and the position you were in. But before going to London, what what was it that was causing you to get down on yourself?

00;30;21;26 - 00;30;45;13
Michael
I think after leaving London, I was I was full of, you know, so much vigor and so much just anything is possible. Right. I had that whole mindset and I was like, this is us, baby. We're, you know, we're going to live a live the life that we want to have some freedom, do our coaching, just be happy and not have to, you know, have a regular nine to five job.

00;30;45;13 - 00;31;11;02
Michael
And I really felt that in like in my heart. And then when I wasn't able to produce that, I just took that as a big defeat, a really big loss. And I just did not wear that well. And then, like I say, going back to the old job, right back into where I was, I did that for a year and then ended up getting the opportunity where I never I always put myself down as being not very smart.

00;31;11;02 - 00;31;38;11
Michael
Right. Like a school smart I ended up having to do a bunch of tests and I'm extremely dyslexic. So which makes sense in the hindsight now because I'll we'll get back and then we'll get into that story a little bit. But so anyway, so I was always down on myself not being smart enough, all these things. But then I ended up with this opportunity with another company that's to move into the office and do project management on commercial projects.

00;31;39;08 - 00;32;00;13
Michael
So I was like, Yeah, let's, let's do it. Something has to change my life, right? So do that. And so this was four years ago now and that was, it was, it was awesome actually. Like it was good for me to do that is very, very challenging. But at the same time, it brought up a whole lot of other demons of I fault myself a lot without being without being smart enough.

00;32;00;27 - 00;32;19;06
Michael
Everyone I work with is, you know, they got four year degrees. These guys have all these things or they're so smart and I'm having hard times with spreadsheets and my mind is my mind's fried at 9 a.m.. Right. But I forget looking back or like, you know, selling cars, doing all this stuff in the field, like I know people.

00;32;19;21 - 00;32;37;26
Michael
So I was able to do very well at this job. But at the same time in my, in my own head, beating myself up every day, almost every minute of that job, if you're not smart enough, you're an idiot. You're doing things wrong. But on the outside, everyone I talked to was like, oh, you're you're killing it and ended up winning awards and doing different things with this job.

00;32;37;26 - 00;32;59;24
Michael
But I just wasn't I was making myself very unhappy with it. And and then that's where I that's where I ended up this is just six months ago now, ended up leaving that job and working with my wife full time now on our on her coaching practice, which is, which is great. I I've never been happier. Right. And it frees me up so much to spend tons of time with my son.

00;33;00;04 - 00;33;21;28
Michael
My son and I have quite a bond now, which we always did. And I always wanted to make sure that I was okay, but I was I would beat myself up quite a bit as well. Like most men, where my discipline of my son I was, I would discipline him for because I was so stressed out, so much anxiety that, you know, he would do something just nominal.

00;33;21;28 - 00;33;39;12
Michael
Like he would not need the reaction that I had right. And I would just blow up and he he's going to love you no matter what. But, you know, he blow it, I'd blow up. And then my wife would be upset because because of what I did or how I acted. And so that put strain on that relationship, put strain on my son.

00;33;40;00 - 00;33;55;13
Michael
Then I would beat myself up at night. Once he went to bed, I was like, oh, what are you doing? Like, that was the worst thing, right? Right. But again, I would just get in that loop and I kept doing it and doing it, doing it right. Because I had so much anxiety about work. And I was just a I was really I was really worried I was really scared.

00;33;55;13 - 00;34;13;27
Michael
And that's where I got that dyslexia prognosis because I went to a psychiatrist and like, man, what is wrong with me? Like, why can I not just be happy I ended up actually going there because my wife, I called her. I was like, Hey, babe, I just won. I work for I worked for a company that was national while I was about five or 600 employees.

00;34;14;10 - 00;34;29;02
Michael
Called her like, Hey, I just won Leader of the Year in our company. And she's like, Oh, okay, well, how does that make you feel? Like, Well, they probably just gave it to me because, you know, they had to give it to a minority or they had to do, you know, like I just played it off so much.

00;34;29;11 - 00;34;49;13
Michael
She she's like, There is something wrong with you. Like, you have to accept what you are and realize what you are. So ended up going and psychologists and doing some tests and doing a bunch actually not some tests. It was like 8 hours of testing and yeah. Realized I was quite, quite low. I think I was in like the seventh or I can't remember like percentile.

00;34;49;13 - 00;35;18;09
Michael
So for learning, so math and English, things like that. So it's really low. But my applied learning was through the roof because I had to learn so many tricks on how to do different things and just get through life. So it really explained a lot of things. I don't rely on that diagnosis by any means at all. I just it's just a good story for guys that, you know, if there is problems like that, there's definitely ways to get through it and we create our own little tips and tricks and, and ways to get through life.

00;35;18;09 - 00;35;35;24
Michael
But yeah, so I had that and it was just yeah, there was, there was a lot I let ball up in myself and I got very scared too. And in the sense of I'm a healthy person, like I've never really had to spend time in a hospital or anything crazy. Right. The few bumps and bruises, but nothing, nothing wild.

00;35;35;24 - 00;35;54;03
Michael
But I was very, very aware of like if I go down this road, I'm or keep going down the road, I was like, I'm going to make myself sick. Like, I'm already having, you know, but my stomach just doesn't feel good all day because of the anxiety. And like, I'm going to create some big problems here soon. And yeah, and I just was having terrible energy.

00;35;54;18 - 00;36;09;26
Michael
So I tried to and then another thing, I tried to go try to get the easy pill again. I tried to go to a when to get a bunch of blood work done and different things for my energy is like just really hoping it was going to be low testosterone so I could just get a easy fix and carry on.

00;36;09;26 - 00;36;34;08
Michael
But turns out, you know, testosterone through the roof. But my energy was through the roof because my cortisol was through there. Like I just all these things or were more against me. So I was like something again, has to change. The money's great. But again, everything was not it's just not about money. The more I realize it. And, you know, you talk to older men and talk to men like in my in my circles and everyone can tell you that.

00;36;34;08 - 00;36;41;07
Michael
But once you're till you live it, you don't realize, right? Like there's so much more to life than than just getting that paycheck right?

00;36;42;10 - 00;37;07;09
David
Yeah. So so you get this award, though, leader, leader of the year and a company of five or 600 employees, you can't accept that at least mentally because because you just don't believe it. You don't believe that about yourself. But now several years later, you're talking about, you know, leading men and becoming becoming comfortable or confident or whatever the word you were chooses to, you know, as a man to lead other man.

00;37;07;09 - 00;37;21;05
David
So so what are some of the lessons you've learned then and since that award and since those diagnoses and all that stuff to now? So now you're saying, yeah, leading being being a man who leads other men is a good thing. And it's something we all, as men can learn. What are some of the things you've learned there?

00;37;22;00 - 00;37;48;24
Michael
Yeah, for sure. So the big one, I try to break it down a little bit now is body because I don't always fluctuate, right? Like especially being in sports my life or like, you know, hockey and stuff like that. But I didn't realize how much the physical body had like the importance of that. So going back into really taking care of myself and you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, hitting the gym every day, but just some sort of movement really taking care of myself, watching.

00;37;48;24 - 00;38;05;13
Michael
I was putting my body so well, all that was going on when I was all depressed and you know, I'd sit on the couch with a bag of chips and, you know, again, as eating my feelings away but wasn't eating carrots so so I was feeding my body junk. I was thinking junk, you know. So again, the outcome is going to be junk rates.

00;38;05;13 - 00;38;26;04
Michael
So I'm really taking care of myself again. With what I was eating. And then the biggest one was with just accepting who I was, accepting my faults. But again, easy to talk about but just to dig in on those and and really accepting who I was. Yeah, I used to be a drunk. Yeah. I'm not the smartest person in the world.

00;38;26;04 - 00;38;52;21
Michael
Yeah. All these things, right? I'm not tall enough, but no, but all these things are. And then really accepting those and owning those and using those as using those as lessons. I use them for lessons. Now all the time with people. Right. And, and just accepting that who I was and, you know, being able to being able to look in the mirror and be okay with that and know that, you know, my, my son will always love me no matter what, you know?

00;38;52;21 - 00;39;20;15
Michael
So I always have that. My wife loves me because I'm not because but just changes I was making were really opening up her eyes and opening up her heart even more of really accepting that masculine role and just really feeling into it, really feeling that whole provider, that protector and just really embodying that. That's where I that's where a lot of that confidence came from of, you know, I used to be a boxer as well, so I boxed a lot, but then I got I got away from all that, right?

00;39;20;15 - 00;39;46;13
Michael
So got away from any kind of any kind of combat or any kind of any kind of sport like that. So then ended up getting a jujitsu, which was very just calming and peaceful. And I shouldn't say it calm again, peaceful. But on the other side, someone tried to choke you. And so it's very interesting and it just beat down this the ego that I had as a man or in the case of all these things, it just be it it can really it really gets rid of that ego.

00;39;47;00 - 00;40;08;15
Michael
So that's that's kind of the golden rule for me is lose that ego, lose that chip on your shoulder, be an open man, be a be accepting, be present and be honest. And then it's it just it flips. It doesn't it doesn't make you that you don't have to be some macho guy or put on this persona. You you be open you be honest, you be vulnerable.

00;40;08;27 - 00;40;18;13
Michael
And then in everyone else's eyes and your own, you realize how strong you are and how masculine you really are. And then the whole world's that you're at your disposal after that.

00;40;19;03 - 00;40;38;10
David
Yeah. So and if this is unfair, what I'm about to say, feel free to correct me. But it sounds like when you were, you know, back at the beginning of the story before you go to London, before you're, you know, emotionally aware and maybe, maybe emotionally immature at that point in time, I don't know if that's fair to say, but yeah.

00;40;39;04 - 00;41;01;00
David
So back when, when you're struggling emotionally and mentally and not knowing who you are, you felt seemed like you had a stronger need to do the things that we typically associate with with the, you know, typical macho man, you know, as, you know, working, working hard, working 17 hours a day and construction and then drinking, you know, and drinking your troubles away and all of that stuff.

00;41;01;00 - 00;41;35;26
David
You know, that's kind of the typical the typical man, right? That's like if you look at how the media portrays, you know, men, that's basically what it looks like and sitcoms and TV shows. But then as you as you go go on this journey and you become, you know, emotionally mature and you start wrestling with who you really are and where your identity is and all of that stuff, then you become you become less dependent on needing to be that kind of macho man to prove that you're a man and you're you're proof that your a man is as in these other things, your relationship with your son, relationship with your wife and those things.

00;41;35;26 - 00;41;37;24
David
Is that is that a fair, fair assessment?

00;41;38;11 - 00;41;46;23
Michael
Oh, Dave, you nailed it. If there was a stamp that said like a stereotype, it probably could have put that right on my forehead. You left out the part of it had a I was driving around in a big jacked up truck.

00;41;47;20 - 00;41;48;14
David
I didn't know that. Yeah.

00;41;48;24 - 00;42;06;03
Michael
Oh, no. It's just funny. You almost nailed everything. You just it's it's. Yeah, 100%. Right. I just putting on this mask of of thinking would I needed to be, like, this outside persona of, of, you know, I've, I've seen everybody else in front of me do that. So I was like, okay, this is how you do it, right?

00;42;06;03 - 00;42;10;07
David
But there's nothing wrong with driving a big, jacked up truck. They're cool.

00;42;10;15 - 00;42;22;17
Michael
Right? No, it was awesome, to be honest with you. It's pretty sweet, except when you had to put tools in the back if you had to lift some really heavy, and then it was a bit of a pain, but. But no, absolutely. Right. And I just thought that's what you had to do. But no, it was so much more.

00;42;22;17 - 00;42;35;12
Michael
Once I was able to really open up and and get into myself. But at the same time, it's easy to see that and easy to talk. And I talk to people about all the time but tell you live some of it and really embody it and feel it. It's not gonna it's not going to hit home.

00;42;35;25 - 00;42;51;26
David
Yeah. So when you when you didn't feel like a man on the inside, you felt the need to prove that you were a man on the outside. And then you started feeling more like a man internally, you know, then you all of a sudden you don't need to go out and prove, hey, look at me, look at how macho I am.

00;42;51;26 - 00;42;55;04
David
You know, I've, I've got other ways to show you that I'm a man that right.

00;42;55;20 - 00;43;14;22
Michael
It is. And then on the other side of that, but once I was okay with like being that man inside, really letting that man be my whole outside world you couldn't be any more masculine or you couldn't be any more manly in the sense of, you know, like looking at trade, lots of hunting, fishing, fighting, loving it just it's so much more.

00;43;14;22 - 00;43;24;00
Michael
But it's not the talk. Like, it's not those bad traits about that, right? It's not just getting drunk and hiding my feelings now. It's being open with my feelings and and living in living a more sober life.

00;43;24;08 - 00;43;55;24
David
Yeah. So what would be what would be something you would say we've kind of talked about to men directly and and embracing their their masculinity and and and wrestling emotionally with those feelings. Not not burying them. Not hiding them. What would you say to a guy who's listening and and maybe they're they're in a point in their relationship, you know, with his with his wife or, you know, with with his his girlfriend or something, you know, and they're and they're getting to that point where she's feeling like your wife felt and he's doing what you did.

00;43;55;24 - 00;44;09;12
David
What would be something you would say to that guy to to try to help him snap out of it or to to just you know, a little catalytic step he could take to move out of that that routine that he's stuck in.

00;44;10;05 - 00;44;25;27
Michael
For sure. And that's what I do with a lot of men. No, they a lot of people come in with that exact scenario of, you know, hitting that spot. And what do we do is the first thing we talked about a little bit is just getting that body right most people that come into that situation aren't doing anything for their body.

00;44;26;00 - 00;44;45;03
Michael
And it doesn't mean, again, like I said, going to the gym seven days a week. But even if they but being intentional about if they go for a walk for a half an hour or I do a lot of I do burpees. Right. All right. I do a lot of that. And I have like a whole burpee challenge and a whole thing wrapped around that in ten days, ten day challenges and things with those.

00;44;45;03 - 00;45;01;24
Michael
But just anything to get your body moving, which again, there's always a rebuttal though I've been on. I've been the man on the other side. Like I work all day. I walk around all day, my work boots, you know, I'm tired and sore. I'm not going I'm not going for a walk for a half an hour. But they have to be intentional walks, right?

00;45;01;24 - 00;45;22;04
Michael
Like you have to really mean it. And that could turn into a run. It can turn into so many things. But once you start getting our body right, just as men, I've noticed, we just need something to where we're hunters, right? We're, we're we're protectors. We need our body to be moving. That's what we want. We came from rowing a boat, doing something right we got to we got to move our bodies.

00;45;22;04 - 00;45;40;29
Michael
So most of us are so stagnant that you just let that energy stew, and typically it turns into something negative. So if we can, you know, just move that energy switched around. But with that, once we start getting the body rate a little bit, it is really opening up and just learning to listen is the next biggest. That's the next hurdle to go to.

00;45;40;29 - 00;45;55;02
Michael
It's always easy to like, well, just go talk to your wife and be vulnerable. But how do I do that? Like, how do you you can just start blob in there, start crying to your wife. About little problems because that's not the right way to go at it either, because she's going to realize like, oh, boy, my guy doesn't have a plan.

00;45;55;02 - 00;46;13;09
Michael
Like, what did I hitch my wagon to? So you got to really learn to listen and communicate properly with with your partner. And that's how I tell most men in the listening part of like, shut everything down. If you have a phone, put it away. If you have the TV on, like no, I can listen like, no, you turn the TV off and just really listen.

00;46;13;09 - 00;46;16;26
Michael
And the the silver bullet is don't solve the problems if.

00;46;17;06 - 00;46;35;08
David
That's a hard one for me. And most guys, it's just like I want to especially when it's someone you love right there in pain and you see the problem. So it's like I want to if I can solve this problem, I'll resolve the pain that you're in and then you'll be better off. But that is not the best not the best move in that situation.

00;46;35;21 - 00;46;53;05
Michael
Oh, man. And especially being being a professional problem solver, right? That's all I did all day at work. I was like, Oh, babe, I got the plan for you. It's like, no, that is not how you do it, right? So shut down. Be very intentional with your listening, even body language, right? Like most, most of us sit on the couch and just kind of whatever.

00;46;53;05 - 00;47;11;03
Michael
But body language really being, really being listening and eye contact and those first few times don't say a word or, you know, bring in the old. Yeah, I understand. Or you might have to kind of reword it so that you make sure that you understand what you're saying. But aside from that, don't try to problem solve. Don't do anything.

00;47;11;24 - 00;47;28;28
Michael
And those little steps, do it once, do it twice, do it three times and all of a sudden, sure, your wife will start realizing all this guy is listening to me and I'm able to open up and be even more vulnerable to be even more emotional because that's what women are, right? They're feminine, they're they're radiant. They're just they're a hurricane of emotions, right?

00;47;28;29 - 00;47;46;23
Michael
Most times when you walk in the door, it's like blah, blah, blah, or and you don't know. And then you as a man, you're like, oh, I just need 10 minutes to, like, leave me alone kind of thing. But all she wants is someone to someone to talk to, someone to listen. So if you can if you can start listening and again, it goes through goes against all our instincts.

00;47;46;24 - 00;48;05;17
Michael
As men. But if you can sit there, listen and just let it be, then that'll that'll make her feel safe. Once she feels safe in the relationship, once she has that container then you can open up and start being vulnerable and being vulnerable from a from a place of emotions, from a place of your feelings. Not my new little problems.

00;48;05;18 - 00;48;20;00
Michael
Not like the every day. Like, I don't know how we're going to pay this bill. I don't know how we're gonna do that. Don't bombard her with those things. Those are more left for a group of men or you're you're you know, you're your friend. You're trusted friends that you have that safe container with with more men. Those are men problems.

00;48;20;13 - 00;48;42;05
Michael
Most men in that circle have been through those problems, and they can help you relate through that. But don't go to your woman with those because that's not her job and she won't. And then again, like I said, you won't make her feel safe in that whole container will break down. But once once she can feel safe in that relationship, then you can really open up from a place of love, from a place of, you know, feeling some emotions in there, baby steps.

00;48;42;05 - 00;48;57;29
Michael
You're not going to jump into it straight away and know, get into the deep, darkest things. But once you open up about a few things, it just it makes everything so much easier. And I harp on a lot of both. Out of the world is hard enough outside of us, like everything bombarding us and hitting us with everything.

00;48;58;14 - 00;49;16;06
Michael
But as long as we can have that home, have that have that home safe and have that home taken care of, everything else will be easy, right? And work as a team. I'm very big on team just you know even sports, you can relate to it. A lot of you and your wife are a team. You're not trying to you're not trying to compete with her by any means.

00;49;16;06 - 00;49;24;20
Michael
You the the better you are, the better she'll be, the better she is, the better you are. But most people don't see that and they always butt heads with each other. And then it's the whole team breaks down.

00;49;25;14 - 00;49;48;22
David
Yeah. So it sounds like one of the things you're saying is we have to learn to be, you know, less selfish when it comes to, you know, are you are you are even our approach to towards work, our approach towards our home life, our approach towards our relationships, you know, the typical the typical guy response is, well, you know, you know, I work hard all day.

00;49;48;22 - 00;50;07;05
David
So so I deserve to to do what I want at night and and really so and like even with the with the physical thing, you know, you know, getting physically in shape so that you're in a better mental and emotional state, you know, working out isn't something that every guy wants to, you know, maybe you're maybe you're wired that way.

00;50;07;05 - 00;50;25;09
David
And I know that there are guys like my brother who was on that woodworking podcast, you know, he just loves working out, you know, everywhere he goes, even on vacation, he has to do some kind of jog. And, you know, he's doing burpees and he's doing pushups and he's doing doing all that stuff. I've I've never been that kind of a guy and maybe someday I'll, I'll get there.

00;50;25;09 - 00;50;45;08
David
But but even looking at the way you're living your, your physical life and saying, well, I work hard all day. I work hard all day. So I don't need to, you know, I don't need to go do that, do that physical activity in the evening. But you're not doing it because you haven't been you know, we haven't been physical for some guys and now some guys.

00;50;45;08 - 00;51;05;04
David
My job's I'm not nearly as as physical as a lot of other men are. But but, you know, I'm doing this because I want I want my body to be in a good place of my I can be in a better mental and emotional place so that I can serve my wife and I can serve my kids. And and so it's kind of flipping that from everything's about me and getting what I want to know my whole life is about serving serving others.

00;51;06;00 - 00;51;23;25
Michael
That's it's taken me so long to realize that. And I was doing it kind of by accident. For a long time. But it is once you realize that the service you can give to anybody else and how you make other people feel, if it's your life, are just going to get better tenfold like it has. It has no choice.

00;51;23;25 - 00;51;38;06
Michael
It's going to get better at your community is going to be so much better. Your group of men is going to be so much better and stronger for having you in it. And like I said, the biggest thing for me is, is our kids, right? I have my son, he's five and we have another one on the way in a couple of months.

00;51;38;06 - 00;51;52;20
Michael
So I'm very, very excited to break all those a lot of those habits, a lot of that generational stuff can stop. Right? And they don't have to see any of that. They don't have to be part of that. And we can we can now create you know, he's going to have they're all going to have their own things.

00;51;52;20 - 00;52;09;10
Michael
And that's that's what they have to go through. But at least they don't have to go through they can go through it with a set of tools that, you know, we'll make it a lot easier. It's not going to make it, you know, super, you know, easy, great, whatever. But they're going to have this set of tools or this toolbox that can really lead them in the right direction.

00;52;10;10 - 00;52;31;15
David
Yeah. And so it's it's getting that that perspective change, you know, approaching approaching your relationship with your wife. Just knocked my microphone there. But talk with my hands a lot. And I don't even realize that most of the time. But, you know, instead of approaching, you know, a lot of couples, they approach their relationship as well. I need this from him and I need this from her.

00;52;31;23 - 00;52;54;07
David
And and as long as I'm getting this from him and I'm getting this from her, then we're going to be able to be in some kind of, you know, symbiotic state and everything will be okay. But but eventually that that breaks down. That wears down because you're you're just taking taking both both people are taking in the relationship where you have to change it to as opposed to I'm taking from you what I need.

00;52;54;07 - 00;53;13;08
David
I'm giving to you what you need. And she's giving to me what I need. And I'm giving and we're giving in exchange now. So instead of taking and emptying one another's cups, we're giving and filling one another's cups. Then we have something to give from when the other when the other needs something. Right. That's a it's an upside down way of thinking about it as our world thinks today.

00;53;13;29 - 00;53;31;17
Michael
Oh, you're exactly right. With that, I again, I talked to a lot of people about sports. I always say a sports right. If you have two star players that are on the same line or anything that are really feeding each other, you know, one's a shooter, one's a passer, whatever that looks like, it's great. But you can also have two star players that don't ever give each other the ball, the pocket, whatever that is.

00;53;31;17 - 00;53;56;12
Michael
And the team suffers. Everybody suffers. Right. So. Right. You nailed it. If both people are filling up each other's buckets, it has no there's no other outcome than great. It really is. Even when big problems hit you, you know, if sickness hits you, you know, death hits, certain things hit. It'll be a lot easier to to take those hits as a team and as a as a as a well-oiled machine instead of trying to do it on your own and pushing everyone else away.

00;53;56;19 - 00;54;17;01
David
Right outside, like Michael Jordan, you know, when he was on the Bulls and he had Scottie Pippen there, they won. They won the three back to back championships. But then he retires and then he comes out of retirement for I can't remember what team it was, Washington, I think, and comes out of retirement because the team that he bought I think was struggling.

00;54;17;09 - 00;54;39;00
David
So I thought, well, I can play on my own team and I can help us. You know, I can help get us back. And but he's in that role. He's a one man show he's I think he didn't he set a record like 80 points in one game, you know, by himself. But they still never were able to to, you know, rise to the level of the Bulls teams that he was on because he didn't have a Scottie Pippen.

00;54;39;00 - 00;54;53;22
David
He didn't have someone else to to throw the ball to or to get him the ball when when he was in a good spot to shoot, you know. So it's you know you need that at least one other person in your life to to really be able to to excel and thrive. We just we can't do it by ourselves.

00;54;53;22 - 00;55;02;01
David
We need we need we need other other men. We need you know, we need our family. We need our wives. And it needs to be the team team partnership you're talking about. That's good.

00;55;02;19 - 00;55;21;22
Michael
Yes, absolutely. And with men especially, I always tell that because there's so much pride and there's so much in the in society now that shows, you know, beat out lone wolf, beat out wall of emotions, don't don't talk about your feelings, don't do anything right. It's better to go it alone. But you have that group of men, like I say, we come from hunting, right?

00;55;21;22 - 00;55;36;00
Michael
So all those hunting packs and you know, guys are able and there is older men in that. There is younger men. Everyone had different experiences and you were just able to talk openly and you figure out and you can you can solve a lot of problems in that. Right. A lot of those older guys have been there, done that.

00;55;36;00 - 00;55;51;10
Michael
They'll laugh at you when they hear, you know, you think the end of the world, they're like, oh, yeah, I remember my first time, you know, they'll tell you a story about it or some sort of learning. Right. Or the young guy might tell you, like you just learned so much from a group of men and but again, creating those you container and being open with each other.

00;55;52;15 - 00;56;06;21
David
Well, Michael, thank you so much, Michael. Iraq, you can check him out on Facebook. They've got a page. They're the revived couple. And you said you're mainly focused on Instagram, but you've got it on Facebook as well as it the revived couple on Instagram as well.

00;56;07;06 - 00;56;26;06
Michael
Yeah, the Revive couple, everything's there. There's a lot of links. One's a really good one that I talk about men with with burpees like we talked about physically. There's a ten day challenge on that where just do 50 burpees a day. Any time of the day, you can break them up. However that looks but you can do it by yourself with your kids, however that looks.

00;56;26;06 - 00;56;40;22
Michael
But it's just a good way to get that blood move and get that get that energy burning. And it's not going to it's not going to kill you by any means, but it's a good way to get moving. But at the same time, there's a lot of integrity in it because you set a ten day challenge or you set a ten day goal and you ought to keep that goal.

00;56;40;22 - 00;56;44;14
Michael
So good integrity and have respect for yourself. And there's a lot wrapped up in it.

00;56;44;24 - 00;57;01;24
David
Yeah. And then I see your wife, you and your wife do some coaching, do some some other things. So, you know, if guys are wanting to maybe get a little bit more intentional about, you know, themselves as men or or then their relationship with their wives, they can they can check you out there as well.

00;57;02;12 - 00;57;21;28
Michael
Absolutely. Dave, anything at the Revive couple? So there's something for for women with my wife, she does a lot with women as a couple with her. And I have a few courses out as couples and then myself for for some men's work as well. So we can kind of both be both be good and then you can bring into relationship to learn some real tangible tools that will just make your relationship even better.

00;57;22;08 - 00;57;30;01
David
Great. Well, thanks so much for being here with us today. You have a final word that you want to want to get in there before we wrap things up.

00;57;31;01 - 00;57;39;24
Michael
No, not really. Do I think we wrap up a lot and I really appreciate yourself in all the work you're doing and just keeping that message out there. And I love listening to you. So thanks a lot.

00;57;47;02 - 00;58;06;17
David
Thank you for listening to The Man The Remember podcast. You can find us online at WW W dot man remember dot com facebook.com slash man they remember and Instagram dot com slash man they remember. Thanks for leaving a review and your rating on Apple Podcasts and most importantly, thanks for sharing this podcast with your friends.